为什么我看到所有的历史书都把中国历史以汉朝为界分成了两个部分？-pg电子麻将胡了

why do all my history books divide chinese history after the han dynasty?

2023-01-10 up机器人 11658 0 0 收藏纠错&举报

译文简介

今年我会在中学教世界历史。我从不同的出版商那里考察了七本不同的教科书，并注意到，与世界上其他地区的历史不同，中国历史被放在书的两个不同部分

正文翻译

why do all my history books divide chinese history after the han dynasty?

为什么我看到所有的历史书都把中国历史以汉朝为界分成了两个部分？

i will be teaching middle school world history this year. i surveyed seven different textbooks from different publishers and notice, unlike all other histories of other regions in the world, chinese history is covered in two different parts of the books, e.g.:

今年我会在中学教世界历史。我从不同的出版商那里考察了七本不同的教科书，并注意到，与世界上其他地区的历史不同，中国历史被放在书的两个不同部分，例如:

chapter 22-25: chinese ancient times to the han dynasty.
chapter 26-35: ancient greece, classical greece, roman republic, roman empire, various islamic kingdoms, and various african empires.
chapter 36-38: sui, tang, song, yuan, ming, and qing dynasties.
remaining chapters: medi europe.

第22-25章: 中国古代至汉代。
第26-35章: 古希腊、古典希腊、罗马共和国、罗马帝国、各伊斯兰王国和各非洲帝国。
第36-38章: 隋、唐、宋、元、明、清。
其余章节: 中世纪欧洲。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处

since this split appears in all of the textbooks, there must be some significance for splitting the history there. what is the likely logic behind dividing chinese history at the han dynasty?

既然这种分界出现在所有的教科书中，那么这里的历史分割一定有一定的意义。从汉朝为界划分中国历史背后可能的逻辑是什么？

评论翻译

village
it would be great if you included in your question where your textbooks were published.
spencerthis is a question of, what is "early china" in historiography? "early china" is an accepted term in historiography, referring to neolithic china to end of eastern han.

如果你的问题中能说明你的教科书是哪里出版的，那就好了。
这是一个历史学上的“早期中国”是什么的问题？“早期中国”是史学界公认的术语，指新石器时代至东汉末年的中国。

semaphore
because the fall of han is a traditional demarcation point in chinese historical periodisation.

因为汉朝的灭亡是中国历史分期的一个传统分界点。

the reason is actually less to do with the han dynasty itself, than it is about what came afterwards. in traditional chinese historiography, han is followed by an era known as the "wei-jin-northern and southern dynasties period" .you see, when the han empire fell in c. 220, it marked the beginning of extended political divisions and, later, barbarian incursions that wrecked havoc in china. in this sense, it is somewhat analogous to the fall of rome and the european dark ages. other than a 50 year period under the western jin dynasty, china was not unified again until ad 589, 369 years later.

原因实际上与汉朝本身无关，而是与后来的历史有关。汉代之后是“魏晋南北朝时期”。你看，汉朝在公元220年灭亡，它标志着政治分裂的开始，后来，蛮族的入侵破坏了中国。在这个意义上，它有点类似于罗马衰落和欧洲的黑暗时代。除西晋统治的50年，中国直到369年后的公元589才再次统一。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处

because this was a period of intense instability and rapid changes, not just politically but also socio-economically and demographically, it is usually given a separate treatment as its own topic. by logical necessity, therefore, the fall of han concludes the pre-wei/jin period of classical chinese history.

由于这是一个剧烈动荡和快速变化的时期，不仅政治上，而且在社会经济和人口统计学上，它通常作为单独的主题单独研究。因此，根据逻辑上的必然性，汉朝的灭亡结束了魏晋之前的中国古典史。

your textbooks either followed longstanding conventions or just arrived at the same conclusion over where to end a chapter. however, it's probably only a coincidence that "all" your textbooks chose to demarcate chinese history like that. another fairly common scheme ends classical history at the unification of china under qin in 221 bc, and then considers the qin, han and wei/three kingdoms period together as one unit.

你们的教科书要么遵循长期以来的惯例，要么只是在章节结束的问题上得出了相同的结论。然而，你们的教科书选择这样划分中国历史可能只是一个巧合。另一种相当常见的划分方案是在公元前221年秦朝统一中国时作为古典史的结束，然后将秦、汉、魏/三国时期视为一个整体。

(1) also known as the six dynasties though the two terms are not completely identical - the six dynasties refer to the six regimes that established their capital at jianye (modern nanjing).

(1)也称为六朝，尽管这两个词并不完全相同——六朝指的是定都在建业，也就是今天南京的六个政权。

(2) during this period, china was first divided into the three kingdoms, and then - following a series of nomad incursions - shattered into the "sixteen kingdoms" in the north and a "southern dynasty" behind the yangtze river. the north eventually consollidated into a (northern) wei dynasty, only to then splintered into the eastern and western wei. both states were subsequently supplanted by the northern qi and northern zhou respectively. the souithern dynasty began originally as remnants of the jin, but after a while was replaced by the song, then the qi, then liang, and finally chen.

2.在此期间，中国先是分裂为三国，然后在一系列的游牧民族入侵之后，形成了北方的“五胡十六国”和长江以南的“南朝”。北方最终统一成北魏，然后分裂成东魏和西魏。这两个国家随后被北齐和北周分别取代。南朝最初是东晋的残余，但过了一段时间后被宋、齐、梁、陈所统治。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处

(3) the barbarian migrations led to major demograaphical changes, for example the "southern voyage of clothes and crowns" - an euphemism for the educated han literati class of nothern china fleeing across the yangtze river.

(3)蛮族的迁徙导致了重大的人口变化，例如“衣冠南渡”，这是中国北方受过教育的汉族文人阶层逃离到长江以南的委婉说法。

kentarotomono
wait, wait, "during this period, china was first divided into the three kingdoms, and then - following a series of nomad incursions - " following a series of nomad incursions? three kingdoms, comprised of 3 dynasties, cao wei, shu han, eastern wu. then cao wei was actually "hijacked" by sima yan whose father destroyed shu han and eastern wu. under the rule of sima yan, jing dynasty was established even though it only lasted for a short period of time ( 50 years ) but normads? no.

等等，等等，“在这个时期，中国首先分裂为三国，然后，一系列的游牧民族入侵……”接着是一系列的游牧民族入侵？三国，由三个朝代组成，曹魏，蜀汉，东吴。当时曹魏实际上是被司马炎所“篡夺”的，司马炎的父亲灭了蜀汉和东吴。在司马炎的统治下，晋朝虽然只存在了短短的50年，但是它被游牧民族入侵？没有。

an what on the earth is the "six dynasties"?. it is referred as "sixteen kingdoms" lix [ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/sixteen_kingdoms ] in english. and you are completely misunderstanding or mixing the sixteen kingdoms with northern and western dynasties lix [ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/northern_and_southern_dynasties ], which is not correct.

“六朝”到底是啥？它在英文中被称为「五胡十六国」，你完全误解或混淆了五胡十六国与北朝和西朝，这是不对的。

semaphore
notice i wrote "first divided into the three kindoms, and then . . . nomadic incursions". thijs is not saying that the two events occurred simultaneously, but rather that nomdaic incursions came afterwards. i'm of course referring to uprising of the five barbarians that took place during the jin dynasty following the three kingdoms period. –

注意，我写的是: “首先分裂成三个王国，然后... ... 游牧民族入侵”。这并不是说这两个事件同时发生，而是说游牧民族的入侵是在此之后发生的。我指的当然是发生在三国之后的晋朝的五胡乱华。

@kentarotomono an what on the earth is the "six dynasties"?. it is referred as "sixteen kingdoms the six dynasties refer to the wu, eastern jin, song, qi, liang and chen dynasties in the south. it is wholly separate from the sixteen kingdoms, which were in the north. this is spelt out in the wikipedia articles i lixed to. i am afraid you're completely misunderstanding my answer here. jing dynasty "unified" after the age of the three kingdoms first. you need to re-check very carefully. i never said the sixteen kingdoms preceded the jin dynasty. please re-read my answer more carefully. –

“六朝”到底是什么？这段历史被称为五胡十六国，六朝是指南方的吴、东晋、宋、齐、梁、陈。它完全独立于北方的五胡十六国。这在我给的维基百科链接中有详细说明。恐怕你完全误解了我的回答。晋朝是三国之后第一个“统一”的朝代。你得再仔细看一遍。我从没说过五胡十六国先于晋朝。请再仔细读一遍我的答案。

david conrad
after conquering other chinese kingdoms, the king of qin proclaimed the chinese empire of the qin dynasty in 221 bc.the qin dynasty soon fell, in 206 bc, but the han dynasty was founded soon after in 202 bc.the western han dynasty ruled china from 202 bc to ad 9, and the eastern han dynasty ruled china from ad 23 to ad 220, followed by the three kingdoms era.

在征服了其他中原诸侯国之后，秦王于公元前221年宣布建立秦帝国。秦朝在公元前206年很快就灭亡了，但是公元前202年汉朝很快就建立了。西汉王朝从公元前202年到公元9年统治中国，东汉王朝从公元23年到公元220年统治中国，接着是三国时代。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处

so the han dynasty ruled china since about 19 years after the qin dynasty founded the chinese empire, and 19 years is a rather short time on the scale of the textbooks you describe.so it is possible that your textbooks divide chinese history into two parts, before and after the qin dynasty founded the chinese empire, but consider the qin dynasty to be a brief moment in time before the han dynasty began in 202 bc.

所以汉朝在秦朝建立中华帝国后的19年左右开始统治中国，19年对于你所描述的教科书来说是一个相当短的时间。所以你们的教科书可能把中国历史分为两部分：秦朝建立中华帝国之前和之后，但把秦朝看作是公元前202年汉朝建立之前的一个短暂时期。

or they may consider the fall of the eastern han dynasty in ad 220 a more important turning point in chinese history since china was only briefly reunited by the jin dynasty for about 20 years in all the centuries until the sui dynasty reunited china in 589. the 300 year period after the fall of the han dynasty was the longest period of chinese disunity since the foundation of the chinese empire in 221 bc, and probably too complex to cover in the textbooks, so they may have decided to cover ancient chinese history up to the han dynasty, skip over the next three centuries, and then resume with the sui, tang, and other more or less "medi" important dynasties.

或者，他们可能会认为公元220年东汉王朝的灭亡是中国历史上一个更重要的转折点，因为在589年隋朝重新统一中国之前的几个世纪里，中国仅仅被西晋短暂地统一了大约20年。汉朝灭亡后的三百年，是自公元前221年中华帝国成立以来，中国最长的一段分裂时期，而且可能太过复杂，以至于教科书无法涵盖，所以他们可能决定将中国古代历史一直讲到汉朝，跳过接下来的三个世纪，然后重新讲述隋、唐等“中世纪”重要朝代。

and that might have been mandated by some educational authority where you teach that wants all the schools to teach a standard history.i note that in the textbook you used as an example, chinese history from myths and legends to 1912 takes up only 7 chapters in a book that has over 38 chapters.i'm not chinese, but i read a lot, so i suspect that when i was a middle school age kid i might have already read as much or more about chinese history as those 7 chapters in the textbook you cite.

这可能是某个教育机构强制要求的，他们希望所有的学校都能教授标准的历史。我注意到，在你作为例子使用的教科书中，中国历史从神话和传说到1912年在一本超过38章的书中只占了7章。我不是中国人，但我读了很多书，所以我怀疑，当我还是一个中学生的时候，我可能就已经读了和你引用的课本中的7章一样多或或更多的中国历史。

magolding
yeah 1. actually i and you seem to be speaking about almost same thing. the fall of the hang dynasty created the huge "vacuum" in chinese history which is too complex for teachers or students to cover. –

是的 1。事实上，我和你说的似乎是同一件事。汉朝的灭亡在中国历史上留下了巨大的“真空”，这个“真空”对于教师和学生来说太复杂了。

it is my understanding that the han dynasty represents the first unification of china, and that it lasts for a very long time. it is often presented as comparable to the roman empire, and i think it is pretty obvious for european history to understand why the roman empire is a major breakpoint.the han dynasty was able to unify china, there was some military developments under it, and it was hard-beaten by nomadic people (as roman empire), that invades china and change its organisation: this explains why the han dynasty is a breakpoint in your books.

据我所知，汉代是第一个中国统一王朝，而且统治时间很久。它经常被描述为可以与罗马帝国相媲美，我认为对于欧洲历史来说，理解为什么罗马帝国是一个主要的分界点是很明显的。汉朝能够统一中国，在其统治下有一些军事发展，并且像罗马帝国一样，被游牧民族蹂躏，游牧民族入侵中国并改变了中国的政权结构: 这就解释了为什么汉朝是你书中的一个分界点。

totalmongot
this is factually incorrect, the qin dynasty unified china before the han. –

事实上这是不正确的，秦朝在汉之前统一了中国。

kentarotomono
i think may be understanding that qing dynasty lix [ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/qin_dynasty ] unified china just for a short period of time. but i think qing dynasty is the breakpoint as you say not the hang dynasty, the fall of hang dynasty is the second "breakpoint" ( as i answered when it comes to sui dynasty. ) –

我认为清朝统一中国时间很短暂。但我认为清朝是一个分界点，就像你说的，不是杭朝，杭朝的衰落是第二个“转折点”(正如我在谈到隋朝时所回答的那样。)

david conrad
the qin dynasty and the qing dynasty are two different dynasties from different periods in chinese history.

秦朝和清朝是中国历史上不同时期的两个不同的朝代。

kentarotomono
@davidconrad of course i know. sometimes it is hard to spell correctly ( like i spelled hang for han ). thank you. –

我当然知道。有时很难正确拼写(就像我把han拼写hang)。谢谢你。

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为什么我看到所有的历史书都把中国历史以汉朝为界分成了两个部分？-pg电子麻将胡了

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